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	<title>The Next-Wave &#187; Brian McLaren</title>
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		<title>Naked Spirituality by Brian McLaren – A Review by Bill Dahl</title>
		<link>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2011/04/naked-spirituality-by-brian-mclaren-a-review-by-bill-dahl/</link>
		<comments>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2011/04/naked-spirituality-by-brian-mclaren-a-review-by-bill-dahl/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 01:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>BillDahl</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Covers]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Bill Dahl]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Brian McLaren]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Naked Spirituality]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA["Beyond Beautiful" – or – 'It’s Wednesday – But Sunday’s A Comin’]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding:5px 0 5px 0; text-align:right; float:right;"><a href="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/plugins/max-banner-ads-pro/max-banner-ads-lib/include/redirect.php?id=3"  rel="nofollow"><img src="http://www.exponentialconference.org/mediafiles/2011-banner-3jpg.jpg" style="padding:4px 4px 4px 4px;border:0;"  /></a><br /></div><p><a href="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Baby-and-Bathwater.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-983" title="Naked Spirituality" src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Baby-and-Bathwater-300x225.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="225" /></a></p>
<p>McLaren, Brian <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Spirituality-Life-Simple-Words/dp/0061854018/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1301602250&amp;sr=8-1">Naked Spirituality – A Life With God in 12 Simple Words</a> HarperOne – an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers New York, NY. Copyright © 2011 by Brian D. McLaren.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.billdahl.net/headline/">By Bill Dahl</a></p>
<p><em>Beyond Beautiful</em> – or – <em>It’s Wednesday – But Sunday’s A Comin’</em></p>
<p>Theologian Stanley Hauerwas has said, “Theology is <em>not</em> best understood as a system — narrative might have something to do with theology.”<a href="http://www.billdahl.net/headline/naked-spirituality-a-life-with-god-in-12-simple-words-by-brian-mclaren/#_edn1">[i]</a> Narrative is fine Stanley – but I’d like some tools that have practical  application to my life, and those around me, as a person of faith. I’d  also like some boots on the ground authenticity from the real life  experiences of a fellow sojourner.</p>
<p>Enter Brian McLaren – <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Spirituality-Life-Simple-Words/dp/0061854018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1301597029&amp;sr=1-1">Naked Spirituality – A Life With God in 12 Simple Words</a>. Here’s the honest truth about the impact this book had on my life:</p>
<p>I had just finished Chapter 20 “<em>Why – When You Have Come to Zero</em>.”  My wife arrived home from work. She began to prepare dinner and I  wandered into the kitchen to catch up together on the day’s events – an uneventful Wednesday.</p>
<blockquote><p>As we stood there chatting, the phone  rang. It was our daughter Liz calling from her home in Utah. Liz and her  fiancée Aaron had buried Aaron’s mother on Monday – just two days ago.  They had just received a phone call – Aaron’s father had been killed in a  car crash.</p></blockquote>
<p>We concluded the tearful call with our  daughter. I went into another room and sat silently – questions,  remorse, sorrow, anger, dismay, confusion – ricocheting throughout my  being. We ate half our dinner and adjourned to a couch. Jacki looked at  me – sorrow and befuddled are two words that were embossed on her facial  expression. We were both <em>at zero</em> – in shock – wounded – <em>naked</em> and fully exposed to the unconscionable in life. I leaned forward, grabbed my reading glasses and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Spirituality-Life-Simple-Words/dp/0061854018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1301597029&amp;sr=1-1">Brian’s book</a>. I turned to the first page of Chapter 20 and read the chapter aloud to my wife.</p>
<p>I looked up and closed the book. “<em>Beautiful</em>?” I remarked, gazing at my wife. – “<em>Beyond Beautiful</em>,” she replied – as restorative waves of soothing, healing truth rolled through our souls.</p>
<p>In <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Spirituality-Life-Simple-Words/dp/0061854018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1301597029&amp;sr=1-1">Naked Spirituality – A Life With God in 12 Simple Words</a> Brian McLaren gets real with God, with life, the seasons inherent  within human existence – sharing his boots on the ground experience as a  fellow sojourner. Another formulaic, step-by-step, overly simplistic,  bogus promise-laden landmine from an over-caffeinated evangelical  Christian? Not Hardly.</p>
<p>At this stage in life, I need to learn  from the experience of others…others who live in my world…the real world  – the world of faith that <a href="http://www.brianmclaren.net/">Brian McLaren</a> lives in. I’m worn out on opinions, perspectives and narrative nonsense  of people trying to sell books – suggesting that “if you do this,  you’ll be fine.”</p>
<p>In this book, Brian shares his own  personal life lessons that are raw, real and uncut. McLaren’s dance with  language provides hues of color that I had overlooked in the life of.  He provides vistas and vantage points where the reader can stand  side-by-side with him gazing beyond what we are presently able to  visualize. There’s no artificial ingredients in the flavors McLaren  serves up.</p>
<p>Take a seat with Brian McLaren – at his table – The table of life with the living God. Enjoy the feast that <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Spirituality-Life-Simple-Words/dp/0061854018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1301597029&amp;sr=1-1">Naked Spirituality</a> provides – one course at a time. Savor the tender, succulent,  mysterious seasonings contained in each course: Here, Thanks, O, Sorry,  Help, Please, When, No, Why, Behold, Yes and Silence.</p>
<p>No, this is not another fast-food systematic theology or another bland narrative. For us, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Spirituality-Life-Simple-Words/dp/0061854018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1301597029&amp;sr=1-1">Naked Spirituality</a> is a unique and nutritious innovation from Brian McLaren – as he  continues to evolve his craft in delivering fare for the faithful.  There’s one thing that separates Brian from the rest of the authors in  faith and culture – he has eaten his own stuff before he allows anybody  else to sample it in print. He readily identifies the faith dishes he  has dined on, admits the tastes he has worn out, the spices that have  turned out to be bland, the sinew of life he has choked on – the wards  of people he has encountered, hospitalized after being poisoned with the  fare of faith served up with a seal of God attached to it.</p>
<p>“Beautiful?” – “Yes – Beyond Beautiful.”</p>
<p>For us, this book was, and shall be, both a timely and enduring blessing. For us, it was It’s Wednesday – But Sunday’s a Comin’.</p>
<p>Forgive me Tony – Thank you Brian!</p>
<p>Please pray for our daughter Liz, son-in-law Aaron and their daughter Rebekka.</p>
<p>This book is precious – so is  life – so is the privilege of relationship with the living God – here –  today – in any and all circumstances – even when you’re at zero….or not.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Naked-Spirituality.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-984" title="Naked Spirituality-2" src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Naked-Spirituality.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="300" /></a></p>
<p><strong>NOTES</strong></p>
<hr size="1" /><a href="http://www.billdahl.net/headline/naked-spirituality-a-life-with-god-in-12-simple-words-by-brian-mclaren/#_ednref1">[i]</a> Hauerwas, Stanley <strong><em>Hannah’s Child – A Theologian’s Memoir,</em> </strong>Wm. B. Eerdsman Publishing Co. Grand Rapids, MI, Cambridge, U.K. Copyright © 2010 by Stanley Hauerwas, p.63. —- Please don’t misinterpret my quote from Dr. Hauerwas. His life, and the book from which this quote is excerpted – are distinctly admired by me – and many others.</p>
<p>You can reach Bill Dahl at <a href="http://www.BillDahl.net">http://www.BillDahl.net</a> or <a href="http://www.ThePorpoiseDivingLife.com">http://www.ThePorpoiseDivingLife.com</a></p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="http://www.billdahl.net/about-the-author/">About The Reviewer &#8211; Bill Dahl</a><br />
</span></strong></p>
<p><strong>Bill Dahl</strong> is a creative thinker, freelance writer, and social observer/commentator. He is an ongoing contributor to the dialog in the faith and culture, economics and creative thinking arenas. He has been characterized as <em>a gifted story teller.</em></p>
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		<title>Brian McLaren Responds to Everything Must Change Concerns: Interview by Andrew Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2010/09/everything-must-change/</link>
		<comments>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2010/09/everything-must-change/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 15:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>publisher</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-next-wave.info/?p=529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[This article first appeared in the Apr08 issue of Next-Wave. You can click here to browse the other articles in that issue: http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/issue112/index.cfm.html ] This month we&#8217;re featuring two different...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><a href="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/everythingissuecover.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-530" title="everythingissuecover" src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/everythingissuecover.jpg" alt="" hspace="8" width="268" height="354" /></a>[This article first appeared in the Apr08 issue of Next-Wave. <a href="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/issue112/index.cfm.html">You can click here to browse the other articles</a> in that issue: http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/issue112/index.cfm.html ]</strong></p>
<p>This month we&#8217;re featuring two different interactions with Brian McLaren and his recent book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0849901839?tag=organicchur0e-20&amp;camp=0&amp;creative=0&amp;linkCode=as1&amp;creativeASIN=0849901839&amp;adid=0HKR4VG44M6RSG7BTED2&amp;">Everything Must Change</a>, this one and one by David Fitch, the author of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/080106483X?tag=organicchur0e-20&amp;camp=0&amp;creative=0&amp;linkCode=as1&amp;creativeASIN=080106483X&amp;adid=0SRQ8M4R9Q5X83Z5G65V&amp;">The Great Giveaway</a>. Enjoy!</p>
<hr />Here&#8217;s an email chat I had with <a href="http://www.brianmclaren.net/">Brian McLaren</a> recently. I reviewed Brian&#8217;s book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0849901839?tag=organicchur0e-20&amp;camp=0&amp;creative=0&amp;linkCode=as1&amp;creativeASIN=0849901839&amp;adid=0HKR4VG44M6RSG7BTED2&amp;">&#8220;Everything Must Change&#8221;</a> but my mixed review was a little harsh and I had a few questions  unanswered. Anyway, thanks Brian for your responses. Here is a shortened  piece of the conversation, right after I was complimenting Brian on his  book:</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" /> Brian, I have 3 concerns from your book that linger:</p>
<p>The  apparent absence of the CHURCH as God&#8217;s primary instrument in  accomplishing his mission on earth &#8211; and the gaping hole in your book  where the example of equality and justice in the early church of Acts  2-4 should have been, in my humble opinion. [i read recently that the  love feast happened daily in homes and the poor could always find a meal  with the believers - a justice element in the lords supper that has  gone by the wayside]</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="Brian McLaren" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" /><span style="font-size: x-small;">Great  point. Because I decided to limit my focus to Jesus, I didn&#8217;t bring in a  lot of stuff from Acts and the Epistles that I could have (except one  chapter to show that Paul is part of the revolution, so to speak, not a  traitor to it as so many think) &#8230; Limiting my focus to Jesus kept me  from bringing in much about the church per se, or from church history &#8211;  or from the Old Testament, for that matter &#8211; each of which could be a  book in itself. A church history written from this perspective would be  powerful &#8211; kind of a 21st century re-write of Broadbent&#8217;s &#8220;The Pilgrim  Church&#8221; (which I&#8217;ll bet you&#8217;ve read, but if not, it&#8217;s worth finding in a  used book shop or seminary library).</span></p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0849901839?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=nextwavewebmagaz&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0849901839"><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/everything.jpg" border="0" alt="Everything Must Change" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="103" height="160" align="left" /></a>One  of the things that I hope the book does (by understatement, perhaps?)  is help people think of &#8220;church&#8221; in broader ways. For example, I don&#8217;t  think that the church per se is going to intentionally solve economic  problems in Africa. But churches will inspire entrepreneurs and  activists and politicians and health care workers and community  organizers and film-makers, etc., to work together in ways that will  bring more and more healing. In this way, &#8220;church work&#8221; is building up  the church, but &#8220;the work of the church&#8221; is doing kingdom work in our  daily lives and jobs, from business to art to government to education to  agriculture to whatever.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />.  . . however, you have already written a great book (the church on the  other side) where you affirm your faith in the body of Christ and you  also are choosing to speak to the church in your Deep Shift tour which  tells me you actually DO see the primacy of the church . . .</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="Brian McLaren" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="right" />Yes.  I was deeply impacted a few years ago by Alan Roxburgh at one of our  events (you may have been there?) when he said, the church is like a  person who gets invited to a party and only talks about himself. I&#8217;ve  been thinking that we get into a syndrome of trying to save our lives  denominationally, etc, which makes us lose them &#8230; when instead, our  churches need to lose our lives, pour ourselves out for the sake of the  world, become more interested in joining God in caring for the world  than in getting God to join us in caring for ourselves, that sort of  thing. But of course, at heart I&#8217;ll always be a pastor, and in the end,  none of this matters unless it&#8217;s embedded in local churches of whatever  form. My next book will lean back in that direction &#8211; it&#8217;s on spiritual  formation and disciplines, etc.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="right" />The  apparent absence of HOPE in your view of future things. Maybe I missed  it but you don&#8217;t seem to acknowledge hope in the afterlife, resurrection  of the dead, etc in your book and i had to guess whether you had walked  away from these foundational orthodox doctrines or you were focusing  exclusively on the immanence of the gospel in today&#8217;s world for effect.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="Brian McLaren" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Again,  I set a pretty specific goal for myself in this book: to explore global  crises and what the message of Jesus says to those crises. I did  address life after death in Secret Message of Jesus, chapter 20. So I  haven&#8217;t walked away from hope in the afterlife, etc. If anything, I see  more than ever how hope in the afterlife is necessary to keep us going  when progress in this life seems slow or nonexistent.</p>
<p>BTW  &#8211; have you read Andrew Perriman&#8217;s books &#8220;The Coming of the Son of Man&#8221;  or &#8220;Re:Mission&#8221;? He&#8217;s opened up a lot of new questions for me regarding  eschatology. I&#8217;d love to know what you think of his work if you&#8217;ve had  time to look at it. He takes NT Wright&#8217;s stuff and extends it a step  farther, I think. Jay Gary&#8217;s work (he has a great website) also has been  forcing me to rethink my eschatology along similar lines.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Yeah  &#8211; I was with Andrew Perriman a few months ago in Amsterdam and I really  like his books AND the questions he brings to the text. Similar  questions as Wright, ie, &#8220;What were the disciples THINKING when Jesus  said that?</p>
<p>Hey Brian, in your book you seem to embrace a  non-spiritual understanding of structures and powers. The Africans would  generally hold to the presence of angels and demons behind things, a  supernatural view of structures as well as natural. Philip Jenkins seems  to land on the western side also on this issue. I don&#8217;t think one could  claim to represent African theology without addressing that issue.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />I&#8217;ve  talked with lots of Africans about this. It&#8217;s really complex. I&#8217;ve had a  couple of personal experiences with &#8220;dark powers,&#8221; so I certainly don&#8217;t  write them off. But I also think that the language used in Africa (and  in a lot of Pentecostalism elsewhere) thinks it grasps these unseen  realities more than it really does. So I probably lean more toward  Walter Wink than either John Spong or Benny Hinn &#8230; these forces are  real, deadly real. But I think that the language of devils, etc., which I  think may have been borrowed by the Jews from the Zoroastrians during  the exile, is no more precise than our language of waves and particles  in trying to grasp light &#8230; which is truly real but which eludes our  ability to define very well. So I wouldn&#8217;t call my understanding  &#8220;non-spiritual.&#8221; It&#8217;s just that I think the spirituality of evil is  non-dualistic, meaning it gets embodied in people and organizations  etc., in their &#8220;spirit&#8221; &#8230; but I would be the first to say I have a lot  to learn on this. Sometime when we&#8217;re together, I&#8217;ll tell you about  some of the fascinating conversations I&#8217;ve had with Africans &#8230; from  common people to theologians &#8211; on the subject of demons and tribal  cosmology in general.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Fair  enough. And I know that you appreciated &#8220;Colossians Remixed&#8221;. And  finally . . . Number 3. An uncritical appraisal of the liberation  theology movement from Latin America &#8211; there are libraries full of  writings on this. I am sure you have read the criticisms (David Bosch in  &#8216;Transforming Mission&#8217; is good) and have your own but your book appears  almost giddy and accepting without reservation -</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="Brian McLaren" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Wow,  this is really interesting &#8230; I honestly can&#8217;t imagine why you&#8217;d say  this. I quote Leonardo Boff several times &#8211; but I don&#8217;t think I quote  any other liberation theologians (maybe Jon Sobrino, whom I&#8217;ve tried to  read in Spanish, but didn&#8217;t succeed very well!), and I think I agree  with David Bosch 100% &#8211; on just about everything! (BTW &#8211; I got to know  his beautiful widow in Praetoria. She&#8217;s planning to join us in Rwanda in  May &#8211; maybe you could come? Let me know if you think you could swing it  &#8211; it&#8217;s May 20-27)</p>
<p>Boff  is neither Marxist nor violent by any stretch of the imagination &#8230; I  think you could say he got into trouble with the pope not for his  economics but for being too Protestant in advocating the priesthood of  all believers! Maybe you saw something I don&#8217;t remember writing. Can you  give me a specific where you think I am giddy about liberation  theologians? Also, which are you critical of, and what ideas of theirs?  It&#8217;s commonly said in Evangelical settings in the US that liberation  theologians are Marxists, advocating violent revolution, etc., but it&#8217;s  interesting: in Latin America or Africa, I&#8217;ve never heard anyone say  anything like this &#8211; I think they abandoned that thinking in the 80&#8242;s or  maybe even the 70&#8242;s. Everyone I met in Latin America would consider  anyone advocating violence as crazy &#8230; I did quote Rene Padilla&#8217;s good  insight about Marxism. He said that in Latin America, people say  Capitalism is very good at production but bad at distribution. Marxism  is good at distribution but terrible at production &#8211; which means the  best they can do is distribute poverty evenly! The hope, clearly, is  with finding ways to make capitalism more humane, compassionate,  collaborative and sustainable &#8211; at least, that&#8217;s how I see it.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Ahhhh.  Forgive me for misjudging. I really like Padilla&#8217;s thinking. I must  have just reacted badly and assumed things that were not accurate.<br />
Brian,  your view on the last things has a few of us guessing. How does your  eschatological position compare with . . say . . an evangelical  post-millenial view? And do you believe in life after death?</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Just  to be super clear &#8230; YES! I believe in life after death! I find it  hard to line up my views with conventional pre, post, or amillenial  views because I think they are all based on an assumption I don&#8217;t share,  i.e. that the book of Revelation is intended to tell us how the world  will end. This view presupposes a deterministic view of history, which I  don&#8217;t share. I suppose I&#8217;m more Wesleyan and Anabaptist in this regard  than Calvinist. Anyway, I talk about this in detail in SMJ, and refer to  it briefly in EMC &#8211; I believe the Book of Revelation is an example of  Jewish Apocalyptic which, although it may be concerned with the end of  the age, is not really talking about the end of the world at all. In  this, I follow NT Wright&#8217;s general line of thought, so if I&#8217;m off the  ranch, so is he. I see Biblical prophecy in terms of warnings and  promises, which are different from prognostications. If I had to put a  name on my eschatology, I suppose I would call it &#8220;Participatory&#8221; &#8211;  meaning that God invites us to participate in God&#8217;s ongoing work in the  world, leading to the ultimate victory of all that is good and the  ultimate defeat of evil. Beyond that, there are a lot of eschatological  details I was much surer about twenty years ago when I read the Bible  less and popular end-times books more!</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />You  seem to be calling the American church to a new level of repentance,  one that is deeper and more connected with structures. How has the  response been?</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/brianmaclaren.jpg" border="0" alt="Brian McLaren" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />My  loyal critics are by and large ignoring this book (so far), or if they  pay attention to it &#8211; this is very sad to me &#8211; they generally ignore  everything about poverty, war, and environmental destruction, and focus  on doctrinal issues they disagree with me about. Sheesh. I can only hope  that someone they agree with theologically will get them thinking more  seriously about global crises. Apart from these loyal critics, though,  response is really encouraging. People are telling me they are coming to  faith or back to faith through the book &#8230; and they are feeling more  confident to call themselves followers of Jesus when Jesus is presented  not just as a fire escape and savior from the world, but as a liberating  king and savior of the world. I am also hearing privately from some  &#8220;big names&#8221; who can&#8217;t afford to associate with me publicly because of  all the nastiness in the American religious world, but who are thankful  for the book and affirming of its message.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m  really grateful that you wrote, Andrew, and I hope we can go go-karting  or something equally fun and good together before too long. I always  meet people for whom you and your website are an oasis in the desert and  a source of hope &#8230; I really appreciate your friendship. Warmly, in  Christ &#8211; Brian</p>
<p><img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/andrewjones.jpg" border="0" alt="Andrew Jones" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="50" height="60" align="left" />Go-Karting  again would be great. Here is a photo of us and our wives at the 2002  Go-Kart race in Prague. Thanks for your helpful responses to my crass  questions. Look forward to our next chat. Glad to be your friend,  Andrew.<br />
<img src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/archives/userfiles/Image/April08/Pragueevent1-tm.jpg" border="0" alt="Jones-McLaren watch Go-Karts" hspace="6" vspace="6" width="360" height="130" /></p>
<hr /><a href="http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/">Andrew Jones</a> is the Project Director for the Boaz Project. His team is developing a  support structure for church in the emerging culture. His blog, <a href="http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/">TallSkinnyKiwi</a>,  is about God, spirituality, new media and new expressions of church.</p>
<div id="articlesviewcomment_title">RECENT COMMENTS</div>
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<p>I really appreciate Jones&#8217; grilling of  McLaren. I read McLaren and &#8211; while he isn&#8217;t you&#8217;re traditional  evangelical &#8211; he doesn&#8217;t seem &#8220;off&#8221; with any of his stuff. Maybe i&#8217;m  just a poor judge of theology, or maybe I just think that we need to  chill out with our worries over doctrine because, honestly, most of us  are probably wrong.Anyways, i hope people can stop getting so riled up by McLaren and start  listening to some of the truth he writes and speaks about. But I really  doubt that will happen&#8230;.</p>
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<div>Posted by <a href="http://www.ramblingsofpassion.wordpress.com/">Adam Lehman</a> | Posted at 04/29/2008 12:44 PM</div>
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<div>1) Yes, you are a poor judge of theology.   2) Would God give us the Bible if he didn&#8217;t think we could have some  measure of certainty about what he says in it?  3) If most of us are  &#8220;probably wrong&#8221; thank you are also &#8220;probably wrong&#8221; with that  statement.  Once again showing that the postmodern view of truth is  self-defeating.  4) There isn&#8217;t much truth in what McLaren writes.   Great analysis, but terrible answers.  5) Yes, evangelicals need to do a  better job with justice issues, but not at the expense of truth.  We  need both and.</div>
<div>Posted by Jeremy | Posted at 05/01/2008 4:31 PM</div>
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		<title>Interview with Brian McLaren: Generous Orthodoxy&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2009/01/interview-with-brian-mclaren-generous-orthodoxy/</link>
		<comments>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2009/01/interview-with-brian-mclaren-generous-orthodoxy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 14:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Brian McLaren]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Generous Orthodoxy]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Next-Wave: Tell us a little about your background? McLaren: I grew up in a Christian family, wonderful parents, but a pretty narrow church experience among a small group called the...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="color: black;"><strong><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310257476/nextwavewebmagaz"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-52" title="Generous Orthodoxy" src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bigenortho-104x150.jpg" alt="Generous Orthodoxy" width="104" height="150" /></a>Next-Wave:</strong> Tell us a little about your background?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> I grew up in a Christian family, wonderful parents, but a pretty narrow church experience among a small group called the Plymouth Brethren &#8212; which is also the background of Garrison Keillor and Jim Wallis, by the way. It was a restorationist, fundamentalist group &#8212; giving me a lot of priceless exposure to the Bible, along with many wonderful examples and heroes, plus exposure to some eccentricities that have turned out to be helpful and instructive for my work in the larger church community.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> What is a generous orthodoxy?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> Well, I took a whole book to try to answer that, and still didn&#8217;t do it justice, but in a sentence, a generous orthodoxy is an attempt to remarry two things that never should have been divorced &#8212; truth and love, orthodoxy and orthopraxy, doctrine and ethics/mission.  The phrase comes from Hans Frei, a leading postliberal theologian.  I think it represents the hopeful possibility of a convergence of postliberal and postconservative Christians.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> Why did you feel compelled to write this book?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> Because of my earlier books, I receive invitations to speak to a wide variety of Christians, from across the spectrum between liberal and fundamentalist, with all the moderate and evangelical stops along the way.  I see encouraging signs of God at work among all of these groups&#8212;fresh winds blowing, people breaking out of old, constricting boxes. I sense a bubble of discontent hidden beneath the surface &#8230; and I hoped, and hope, that we can acknowledge that discontent with the status quo and channel it toward constructive and fruitful ends.  In many ways, this book has been gestating in me from way back in the days of the Jesus Movement, when many of us were coming together focused on Christ and his peace and joy, not being distracted or divided by other things, lesser things.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> You go to great lengths to warn readers of the content in the book&#8212;why did you do this?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> Since my goal was bringing people together, it would be completely counterproductive to make people mad.  Yet I needed to deconstruct some of their categories.  So, I decided to use some humor, irony, self-effacement, and oddness at the beginning of the book to help readers lighten up, become less serious, and read a bit more playfully, since many spiritual blessings only come to those who are childlike.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> Who is this book written to?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> I had three groups in mind &#8211; disillusioned Christians, Christians interested in exploring faith in new territory beyond modern constraints, and people exploring Christian faith from the outside.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> Do you think Jesus would be a Christian today?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> I think he would love Christians, as he would love Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, new agers, and even atheists. But I&#8217;m not sure he would be well-received among Christians.  In fact, I&#8217;m pretty sure most of us, maybe all of us, would call him a heretic and excommunicate him, or at least keep him under close surveillance.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> In the book you talk about being surrounded by Christians who like the idea of the American God, and the middle-class Republican Jesus. How do you think this culture has distorted the view of lordship?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> Don&#8217;t get me started on this, or I&#8217;ll lapse into rant.  Let me just say that I&#8217;m very very afraid of what&#8217;s happening in the church in America. I&#8217;m afraid we&#8217;re falling into a warrior trance, where the church baptizes the state or seeks to reclaim a kind of Constantinian power in the American empire.  We&#8217;re not listening to our brothers and sisters across the globe who are shocked and disappointed in our uncritical support of our government.  We say we trust in the Lord, but it seems to me that our trust is pretty enmeshed with &#8220;horses and chariots&#8221; as the Psalmist said.  We&#8217;re succumbing to the politics of fear.  We think that because we&#8217;re pious&#8212;because we pray and sing and use lots of highly religious language &#8211; that we&#8217;re immune to this kind of seduction, but it&#8217;s happened a thousand times in history, and I think we&#8217;re no less vulnerable.  In fact, our wealth and power should make us more vulnerable to these seductions.  As I said &#8230; don&#8217;t get me started.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> Describe what it means to be missional.<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> The term missional asks this question:  what is the purpose of the church?  To enfold and warehouse Christians for heaven, protecting them from damage and spoilage until they reach their destination?  Or to recruit and train people to be transforming agents of the kingdom of God in our culture?  The missional church understands itself to be blessed not to the exclusion of the world, but for the benefit of the world.  It is a church that seeks to bring benefits to its nonadherents through its adherents.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> In your book, you describe the term &#8220;evangelical&#8221; as being sectarian and restrictive. What do you mean by this?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> Actually, I distinguish between &#8220;E&#8221;vangelical, and &#8220;e&#8221;vangelical, and the latter, I believe, is one of the most nonsectarian and inviting terms we have, meaning focused not on doctrinal distinctives and sectarian squabbles, but on the gospel which brings hope to us all.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> Talk about the role poetry plays in a generous orthodoxy.<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> There&#8217;s a kind of ungenerous orthodoxy that is like spiritual accounting &#8211; adding up debits and credits in a kind of merciless, heartless judgment.  It uses the language of law and engineering; it likes exact sciences so that it can draw neat lines to make clear who&#8217;s in (us) and who&#8217;s out (them).  A generous orthodoxy sees this and heads in the other direction.  It sees the language of poetry as essential in the Bible &#8211; it&#8217;s not only the language of the Psalms, but also of the prophets, and of Jesus.  Poetry conveys mystery, and mystery humbles, and humility doesn&#8217;t judge, but sees others as better than oneself.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> How does a generous orthodoxy regard the Bible?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> It tries to say about the Bible what the Bible says about itself. For example, it believes that the Bible is inspired by God, is useful for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in just living.  It believes the Bible is intended to prepare us to do good works, and to encourage us and give us hope.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> What do you hope to accomplish by writing this book?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> I hope to give hope to people who have lost, or almost lost, hope. I hope to encourage a convergence of people who feel the status quo isn&#8217;t good &#8230; people from across the spectrum of the Christian community &#8211; people who want to love God and love their neighbors above all.  I see many Christians constricting in a kind of harsh, nationalistic neo-fundamentalism.  I hope to imagine a better alternative and stimulate others to imagine it  too, and pursue it, live it.<br />
<strong>Next-Wave:</strong> What is your definition of orthodoxy?<br />
<strong>McLaren:</strong> I like Chestertons&#8217; definition.  Orthodoxy is, he said, &#8220;a whirling adventure.&#8221;  Rather than being something we possess like a membership card in our wallet, it&#8217;s something we seek &#8211; like a dream, like an ambition, like a calling.</span><br />
<span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
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		<title>Interview with McLaren: The Last Word&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2009/01/interview-with-mclaren-the-last-word/</link>
		<comments>http://www.the-next-wave.info/2009/01/interview-with-mclaren-the-last-word/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Brian McLaren]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Interview]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Next-Wave]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Next-Wave: Brian, you&#8217;ve been dubbed a &#8220;postmodern pioneer&#8221; and named one of  the 25 most influential evangelicals in America, had your books banned and speeches cancelled, what&#8217;s your reaction to...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0787975923/nextwavewebmagaz/002-9333124-5110426"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-48" title="The Last Word and the Word Aftr That" src="http://www.the-next-wave.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lastword-109x150.jpg" alt="The Last Word and the Word Aftr That" hspace="6" width="109" height="150" /></a>Next-Wave:</span><span> Brian, you&#8217;ve been dubbed a &#8220;postmodern pioneer&#8221; and named one of  the 25 most influential evangelicals in America, had your books banned and speeches cancelled, what&#8217;s your reaction to the controversy and the notoriety?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> It&#8217;s all been kind of strange, and I try not to think about it too much. The good news is that I continue to get a strong stream of emails, letters, etc., saying that my work is helping people.  These notes are often very moving &#8212; like bring-tears-to-your-eyes moving &#8212; and they help me not be preoccupied with the people who think I&#8217;m a villain, heretic, and all-around bad guy.  I&#8217;m not a fighter by nature &#8230; so I don&#8217;t like controversy.  At heart I&#8217;m a contemplative, so this much attention can be rough.  At least I don&#8217;t have to worry about that verse, &#8220;Woe to you when all people speak well of you&#8221; any more! Processing all this and seeking to respond in a God-honoring way is a great growth opportunity for character, prayer life, etc. </span></p>
<p><span>Next-Wave:</span><span> Some of us hope that the &#8220;Last Word&#8221; is not the last word from Dan Poole and his friend, Neil Oliver, is saying &#8216;to hell&#8217; with hell the last we are going hear from these characters?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> I hadn&#8217;t planned on taking them any farther.  But you never know. Sometimes I think about picking up one of the minor characters someday.</span></p>
<p><span>Next-Wave:</span><span> Why is hell such a thorny issue for Christians?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> All of us who have a high view of Scripture don&#8217;t want to blunt its sharp edges; we want to be faithful to Scripture, and to God &#8212; even when it&#8217;s hard to do so.  Yet &#8212; as I try to show in the book &#8212; the Bible&#8217;s treatment of hell and judgment is significantly more nuanced, multifaceted, and rich than the conventional teaching we often hear. Grappling with the Bible&#8217;s complex of teachings on hell and judgment seems to run up against the picture of God we get in the Bible: how do we reconcile the two?  That&#8217;s not easy.  It calls into question our hermeneutic (way of interpreting) as well.  What do we do with a subject that is never mentioned in the Old Testament, that arises in the Inter-testamental period and is not universally accepted (except by Jesus&#8217; main antagonists), and then is handled by Jesus in fascinating, sophisticated ways? Add to that the varied ways the apostles deal with the subject (or don&#8217;t deal with it) &#8230; and you have a pretty challenging situation.</span></p>
<p><span>Next-Wave:</span><span> Is it true that your book is saying that &#8220;hell&#8221; is a myth?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> No.  I never say anything like that.</span></p>
<p><span>Next-Wave:</span><span> In your experience as a pastor, have you found that &#8220;hell&#8221; serves as a deterrent for sin?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> Not very much.  Most Christians feel that they don&#8217;t need to face any sort of judgment, much less hell.  The only people who need to worry about hell, in their minds, are the people who generally don&#8217;t worry about it.</span></p>
<p><span>I think if we had a stronger sense of the reality, presence, purpose, love, holiness, justice, and inevitability of God &#8230; that would strengthen sin-deterrence powerfully.</span></p>
<p><span>But in the end, I think it&#8217;s more our practices that help us avoid sin, not only our concepts.</span></p>
<p><span>Next-Wave:</span><span> What&#8217;s at issue with the four main Christian perspectives on the afterlife&#8212;exclusivism, inclusivism, conditionalism and universalism, and what difference does it make to an ordinary Christian who isn&#8217;t interested in rhetorical analysis or systematic theology?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> I think that people can be good Christians with any of these views, and I also think they can be bad Christians.  One of my biggest concerns, though, is that a hell-focused understanding of the gospel distracts us from the real message of Jesus &#8211; which is the kingdom of God.  I think what would help us most would be a kingdom-focused understanding of the gospel, and I hope this book prepares the way for that.</span></p>
<p><span>Next-Wave:</span><span> Your book proposes a new understanding of the relationship between justice and mercy in the Bible and in God&#8217;s character. Could you explain?</span></p>
<p><span>McLaren:</span><span> With this book, I feel a lot like the dancer who was asked what her performance meant. She replied, &#8220;If I could have said it, I wouldn&#8217;t have had to dance it.&#8221; So it&#8217;s hard to sum up, but let me frame it in this way, as a question: what if justice and mercy aren&#8217;t two separate things, but rather two sides of the same thing, namely, goodness?  What if God&#8217;s justice is always merciful and God&#8217;s mercy is always just?  What if the two aren&#8217;t opposed to one another, but rather are integrated in God, just as they are in, say, a good parent or teacher or judge or king?  This is one of Jesus&#8217; main points, I believe, in the sermon on the mount: it&#8217;s one of the ways that his &#8220;righteousness&#8221; exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees: their justice lacks mercy, but for Jesus, the two always go together.</span></p>
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